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This is part 3 of the testimony of Joseph Lauricella, regarding a suit against someone accused of stealing computer files. Mr. Lauricella testifies that he was paid by WMX, the giant waste handling firm, and a WMX subsidiary - called Rail-Cycle - to create a fake environmental organization, buy the stolen computer files, and attempt to discredit a company opposed to a huge WMX landfill project in Cadiz, California. The proposed operation would handle the garbage of Los Angeles and would become the world's largest dump. Cadiz Land Company says it would jeopardize a precious ground water resource. (Back to Part 2 for previous testimony.)

A. Right. Handed him the tapes. How did I do it? Then we played around

some more -- I should take this back. We took the tape and made one big

tape, took a 3-minute tape, we looked at it and said we need to go down

even further. Wherever we're going to show that thing at, we need to

have it down further. So while he was still playing the disks, I went

down with the credit card, did the thing, edited it again and came back

up again. He liked that, he said go ahead and run off so many batches --

we needed actually like 20 -- we had 20 or 30 of them that were going

out in mailings, and I went ahead and copied -- made shitloads of copies

of these tapes, boxed them up, labeled them all up with nice label tape.

I know they went to the board of supervisors, we sent copies up to the

board of supervisors, it went to the Planning Commission, it went to the

Mojave Water Agency, it went to specific newspapers with some kind of a

little letter, it was a real brief letter from FACE Environmental or

whatever, I think it was still FACE at that point. Yeah, FACE

Environmental. And at that point in time Glen had somebody to decipher

some of the stuff off the disks, but not all of it. And so I left, we

left that day. Yeah, we didn't spend the night over, I don't think. So I

don't remember whether we spent the night over or whether we went back

that night. We probably went back.

And then a couple days later I ended up, I got the deciphered disks and

the paperwork in the mail. They were Fed Ex'd.

Q. Now, while you were there in Mr. Odell's office on that day did he

make any comment about what he had found on the disks that he had

deciphered?

A. Yeah. We looked at it because there was a problem, we were having a

problem getting it into the program he was using on his computer. He had

to use the program that would run that specific program on the computer

at the office or even on the main frame. So he had to piece it together.

Did I take any of it back and forth trying to get it pieced together.

Glen sat there and pieced the pieces of it together, but it didn't come

out looking the way it should have come out. We got an understanding at

that point what it was, that it was the crop and it was the billing

records and the telephone numbers.

Q. The telephones numbers of what?

A. The investors. Or what we assumed were the investors.

Ms. Klar: Okay. Let's take a break.

(Recess.)

Ms. Klar: Let's mark this as Lauricella Exhibit C, which contains

documents marked CLC 0172 through CLC 0489.

Exhibit [s] indexed: Exhibit C.)

Q. By Ms. Klar: Now, did there come a point in time when you saw what

was on the disks that you had taken from Cindy Eisenberger?

A. Right. There was a time that, you know, we took the stuff off the

disks, and I got it from Glen, it cam in, and it was different

information. It appears to be the same information that we have here in

front of me.

Q. Okay. You're talking now about Exhibit C?

A. Exhibit C. However, because we used a different type of program it

looked different than this. This looks like this is taken off a disk

with the proper program that it came out of, whereas we had to -- Glen

had to put together a program to get it out and it looks different, and

somewhere around I believe there is a copy of what it looked like.

Q. Of what it looked like after Glen did it?

A. Yeah. Looking different than this. This looks like this was a large

debit, credit book, this looks like it came off of a large print format,

and so it broke it down, whereas the other was broken down to 8

1/2-by-11 sheets with the -- with everything on one sheet.

Q. Now, did you and Glen talk about the information?

A. Well, we realized -- yeah, we talked about it -- as far as it being

the investors. We also realized what was in there is how much people

were being charged for -- for each section that they had.

Q. Now, did you and Glen talk about the information?

A. Well, we realized -- yeah, we talked about it -- as far as it being

the investors. We also realized what was in there is how much people

were being charged for -- for each section that they had.

Q. You mean the farming cost?

A. The farming costs, whether they had quit using the system or whether

they were still doing it. And then also there were a lot of like

inter-office memos that Glen -- it showed us actually kind of like a

problem company profile from such and such a time to such and such a

time, because the memos were listed, this is the one memo we send when

we have a problem with this sort of thing, and this is another memo that

we send when we have a problem with this, and we had an overall view of

the company. And taking those memos and with all the information that

Glen had, we had a call list that I was supposed to call people to try

to get sympathy and I was supposed to call them and say I was from FACE

Environmental and trying to get sympathy, but mostly to get important

information to send to the investment companies.

Q. The investment companies?

A. The institutional investors.

Q. These were at or about the time that Cadiz was involved in the Sun

World deal?

A. This was actually before the Sun World deal. Nobody at that point in

time was very worried about it. This was before the Sun World deal.

Q. So you were simply, "you" meaning Rail-Cycle, Waste Management, Mr.

Odell, were interested in providing negative information to Cadiz --

A. To Cadiz --

Q. -- to Cadiz institutional investors?

A. Right. And we phoned them. And somewhere around in all of this

mish-mosh of information there are a couple that have Glen's and my

handwriting on them.

Q. So in other words, there are lists?

A. There are lists with Glen's handwriting telling me to phone this one

because this one has a lawsuit or had a lawsuit against you guys, Cadiz,

work on this one. There's addresses in there where I'm dealing with --

it may say the phone number, such and such a thing, and I've checked the

phone number, and you can see that in these copies.

Q. And do you know if institutional investors actually were contacted?

A. Yeah.

Q. And did you do that?

A. I did that.

Q. And you did that pursuant to Mr. Odell's instructions?

A. Straight to Mr. Odell. Because also somewhere is a mish-mosh of paper

around here someplace from our computer and all the spamming --

Q. S-p-a-m-m-i-n-g.

A. You'll find all the spamming lists were on there. And it lists the

information, stuff that Glen wanted us to say, also we did a lot of

stuff on the internet in the users groups where we -- we became

different people on it and so we could get like this whole scam going on

how Cadiz were burning their investors and how the company was going to

go down the tubes. And we actually started bringing people into it to

ask about it to make it bigger and bigger and bigger.

Q. Now, is it correct that you used information that you got from Cindy

Eisenberger on the disks to compile the lists of institutional investors

to whom you contacted?

A. That's correct.

Q. And is it also true that you called investors who were identified in

those materials to find out negative or adverse information about Cadiz?

A. That's the only reason we phoned them. Did we get any information?

Q. Did you?

A. Yeah. Of course. Because we only picked the ones that we knew were

going to be negative when we phoned.

Q. And did you leave with Mr. Odell or with anyone at Waste Management

or Rail-Cycle copies of these disks?

A. Okay. Now it comes to where the disks went to. Yeah, Odell had the

disks, okay, and he had the disks and the paperwork for a period of

time. He sent them back to me, probably by Fed Ex. That's how most of

this was sent back to me by Fed and I believe -- you know, I don't even

think there was a letter in there. I think we packed the disks up with

some of the information, what he told me to do, and I think it was

actually the stuff he sent down, I put it in there and I mailed it off.

And that's the last I saw of the disks until -- until -- well, I

actually didn't see the disks until about three months ago or four

months ago. I can't recall the exact date. A lawyer came up from -- a

Mr. Madison and a Mr. Muehl, and another attorney representing Waste

Management, Glen Odell and Rail-Cycle came up to visit me in the jail.

And they after talking to me opened up this envelope and inside the

envelope were photostatic copies of the disks and photostatic copies of

the outside of the letter that I sent and told me not to tell anybody,

which I thought was kind of strange, but that's where the disks had

ended up at. And had I remembered sending them, and I said, yes, I had

remembered sending them vaguely. It wasn't like that big a deal. I sent

stuff back and forth so much I didn't think that much of it, but I did

vaguely remember sending it because I remembered the address because it

was really weird, it was like Valley or Avenue of the Stars or something

like -- kind of like a Hollywood kind of thing, so I remember that. And

they said that I wasn't supposed to say anything to anybody, but that is

who had had the disks. They showed me copies of the disks, but

photostatic copies of the disks. Photostatic copies of the envelope. And

I don't think there was any photostatic copies of these, of the actual

read-outs, but there was the disks, each of the disks.

Q. You referred to the outside of the letter. Did you misspeak? Did you

mean the outside of the envelope?

A. Yeah, the envelope. It was a large 8 1/2-by-11 envelope which meant

it had to be sent on a Saturday -- either that or we missed the Fed Ex

drop.

Q. And was the envelop written in your handwriting?

A. It was written in my handwriting, yeah.

Q. And was the law firm to whom it was sent Christensen, White --

A. Yeah.

Q. -- and Miller?

A. Some big old long name. Avenue of the Stars. And up in the right-hand

corner was the return address, Jake Marti, I think P.O. Box 120 or 22

Cadiz, California. Which is what I used a lot.

Q. Now, you mentioned earlier the name Robert Muehl, when was the first

time you met Mr. Muehl?

A. Personally?

Q. Personally.

A. Up here.

Q. Up here at the jail?

A. I knew who they were talking about, but I had never really met him.

He handled -- he handled like the little covert operations and

background collection and that sort of thing.

Q. Did you ever speak with him?

A. Yeah. But I didn't speak with him as Mr. Muehl, but I spoke with him

just as their investigator.

Q. And when you say "their investigator" you mean Rail-Cycle, Waste

Management?

A. Yeah.

Q. And who first told you about Mr. Muehl, Mr. Odell?

A. Yeah. They used him a lot -- yeah. Every time -- let me back this up.

A lot of the times when I was talking to their investigator -- or we

were talking about an investigator, we were talking about Mr. Muehl,

only I didn't realize we were talking about Mr. Muehl until after I was

up here. Does that make sense?

Q. So you knew they had an investigator you just didn't know his name?

A. Right.

Q. And when the envelope, the copy of the envelope was presented to you

three or four months ago, was it presented by Mr. Muehl and Mr. Madison

and this other attorney?

A. Uh-huh. It sure was. And I was told not to say anything about it.

That it was-- it seemed to say anything about it. That it was -- it

seemed kind of stupid because obviously they knew that I had been

talking at that point in time, I had been talking to the Sheriff's

Department, so it made no sense not to.

Q. And that was the envelope in which you transmitted the disks?

A. Right, to rah, rah, rah, all those names.

Q. Christensen, White, Miller & Fink, whatever it was?

A. Right.

Ms. Klar: Let's go off the record for one minute.

(Off the record.)

Q. By Ms. Klar: Now, after you sent the disks to Christensen, White

pursuant to Mr. ODell's instructions did you have any further

discussions with him about that information until you had your

conversation with Mr. Muehl and Mr. Madison and the other attorney?

A. Well, that information was used, we used that information all the

time. All the information that was gathered from those disks we used

whenever we wanted to. It was a put down -- anytime we were trying to

put down the company, we would use that information all the time. So to

say we didn't deal with the disks per se, we didn't deal with the disks.

The information and /or the lists were used on a daily basis.

Q. And you were using that as part of what I'll call the smear campaign

against Cadiz?

A. The smear campaign, yeah.

Q. Is it correct that you sent the disks to a particular attorney at

Christensen, White pursuant to Mr. Odell's instructions?

A. Oh, I'm sure I did. I wouldn't have just sent an envelope to five or

six attorneys. On the bottom of the envelope when I saw it up here at

the jail had an attention on the bottom of where I would have normally

put an attention, I believe, and it was kind of blacked out you couldn't

see whose attention it was to. As though they were making a copy that it

was lifted up conveniently to block that out. At this point in time it

makes no sense as to why they told me they had the damn thing anyway,

because I had figured where it had gone to.

Q. And you don't have an independent recollection of the name of the

attorney to whom you sent it?

A. I do not.

Q. Now, the third person who visited you at the jail was that male or

female?

A. Male.

Q. And was that a person you had met or talked to before?

A. No. Actually it wasn't. And he only met -- he only came in -- the

meeting I had the first time that I talked to them, they all came in on

-- either a Tuesday or a Thursday. They stayed four days. Three or four

days, and you can check the file and see if they have a list who was

there. He came in the first day and didn't come the other days after

that. They sent the third person.

Q. The third person was only there one day?

A. Right.

Q. And did they tell you why they were there?

A. Yeah. Basically to get me to change the story about -- find out what

was up and get me to change the story about the diskettes, because Glen

had been arrested at that point for the diskettes, and that what I was

doing was causing more -- if I was causing this problem what was really

happening is I was going to get myself arrested for it and all I was

doing is I was going to get myself put in jail for this. And I should

recant the thing. I should tell them that Cindy had given me the disks

and she had said that they had given her the computer, that Cadiz had

given her the computer.

Q. And Mr. Muehl and Mr. Madison were advocating that you take that

position?

A. That position. But, how did they say it, "Don't you believe that's

what you really said?" They didn't come out and say that is what you

have to say. "Don't you believe that that is what you really said?" "Now

in your best recollection, don't you believe that that's what you really

said?"

Q. Now, did you only have that one meeting with Cindy Eisenberger?

A. Yeah, I talked to Cindy Eisenberger on the phone maybe two or three

times maybe. Pursuant to Glen telling me that we didn't really need her

to come to Irvine and having her come up that it wouldn't be a really

good idea to have her come up. We would put her on hold and gather any

more information that we might be able to gather from her but keep her

in the background on hold.

Q. So you were sort of holding her on ice by continuing to call her?

A. Yeah. She was going to court on something else and she didn't really

want to get involved.

Q. And after she supplied you with the disks did she ever provide you

with any additional information either orally or in writing about Cadiz?

A. She talked about how bad the company treated her but I don't think we

got anything other than that, I believe. I mean, no. Glen might have. He

had her number, but I don't think he would have -- he wouldn't have --

it was not his style to be the hands-on guy so. But Muehl has been down

this year quite a bit.

Q. Muehl wen to see her?

A. Yeah.

Q. How do you know that?

A. Because he told me.

Q. What did he tell you?

A. He said he went down and talked to her and she thoroughly recollects

telling me that the computer had been given to her and that they had two

people swear and ready to testify that they had given her the computer.

Q. Did Mr. Muehl tell you who was prepared to swear that they had given

her the computer?

A. I got the impression kind of like, you know, kind of like in the

conversation it might have been Ken Ludeke. He might have been one of

them.

Q. Did Mr. Muehl identify any other people he had spoken with about the

situation regarding the disks?

A. No, but we sent a reporter down there. I forgot about that, too. We

paid a reporter, or Glen paid a reporter during the time of -- when we

realized -- see, maybe that's where I got the third visit on this thing

now that I'm kind of thinking back. Glen hired this reporter to do an

independent news story on Hyder, Arizona and I met with Glen, Jake, the

reporter and their PR guy. What the hell is their PR guy.

Q. Waste's PR guy?

A. Yeah. Waste's. If I had the name -- I wish I had my stuff, I could

tell you exactly what it was. But we met in a bar -- actually, we met in

the bar of a motel not too far from -- from-- from the San Bernardino

City Hall. A big motel downtown. Anyway, we met there. As a matter of

fact I had to hang around half the day to meet this guy and I had a real

bad impression of him. I didn't find him to be -- I didn't feel that he

would be a real good guy to bring down there. He wasn't down there and

the people were really down to earth. And he sent him on down the road.

He stopped by Cadiz on the way out before he went down there. I have the

report somewhere, he -- an in-depth report but he came back with like

local color more than anything else, not anything that we could really

use, and Glen was on the line now. And that's why, Glen was on the line

at that point on the money that he had put out for this reporter and

didn't really have anything to show for it. And that's why we went down

there for the Eisenberger thing. Now, I remember why I went down. It's

funny now it all falls together. He had put out this money and what he

had gotten back was crap, just a little human interest story and not the

hard kind of -- they guy couldn't come up with the B.S. that they needed

.

Q. You don't remember the name of the reporter?

A. If I had my stuff I could go through it. I have a bad memory, but I

was always pretty thorough.

Q. Muehl never told you that he had interviewed Ken Ludeke, did he?

A. I spent three or four days out there with those guys. There must have

been a reason -- in my way of thinking Mr. Ludeke's name came up in a

interview that we had been doing. He said it was pretty stupid that Dean

hadn't gone there because the biggest part of their case was dealing

with Cindy Eisenberger and the people down there or Cindy, and by the

way I don't remember her as Eisenberger. Her name was Cindy, by the way.

And their whole case was they arrested Glen and never bothered to send

anybody down to interview Cindy. They did it over the phone and they had

spent all kinds of time and the same thing with the telephone line out

at Jake's, they basically didn't have their act together and this was

going to be a walk-through kind of case.

Q. Okay. Let's hold up just for one second, and we'll get to that next.

Did anyone during the course of those three or four days show you any

additional documents?

A. Yeah, they had a -- they called it the crime book. They had a book

that was about a binder that was maybe half a time bigger than this,

about this thick full of stuff.

Q. How big?

A. Like that.

Q. Six, eight inches?

A. Yeah. A legal binder.

Q. And can you remember any of the documents?

A. There was everything. There was -- these things were in there.

Q. "These things" you were pointing to Exhibit C?

A. Exhibit C, the parts of the disks, not all of them but a couple pages

of those, there were -- there was a letter, remember, the first time you

guys came up there was your letter that you had sent them. They wanted

me to change those.

Q. Do you mean the declarations?

A. The declarations, those were in there. There were just a lot of

things in there.

Q. All things you had seen before?

A. Yeah, pretty much so that I can remember. And they coveted that book.

"Did you see this," and then they would hold things back.

Q. Did it seem to be Muehl's book or Madison's book?

A. It seemed to be Madison's book. Madison seemed to be rolling the show

more than anything else. Muehl looked to be the investigator and not the

-- he certainly wasn't the lawyer in the case.

Q. And did anyone take notes?

A. Both of them. I think both of them took notes sort of. I think.

Q. What about the third guy, did he take notes?

A. No. The third guy was only there for a real short period of time. He

kind of blew in and blew out. He might have been somebody local for all

I know. There was my attorney and those three.

Q. Your attorney meaning Pat Valencia?

A. Right.

Q. And was Mr. Valencia there the entire time?

A. Only for the first 45 minutes of the meeting and then he left. And he

never appeared again for any of the other meetings.

Q. Now, you started talking about the phone line at Jake Marti's.

A. It's not really all that important --

Q. All right.

A. -- to me.

Q. Have you discussed that subject with Sergeant Dean, the phone line

Jake Marti's?

A. Yes, I have.

Q. Do you have anything to add to what you told Sergeant Dean on that

subject?

A. No. You know, it's funny though, I'll tell you something, looking at

these things here.

Q. Referring to Exhibit C?

A. Exhibit C. Glen opened all these up, but I didn't get half this stuff

back. In other words, he broke the code, but I'm almost positive that

these went to different parts of the company. Because there's things in

here like -- well, like this, this billing and all this stuff, I never

saw. I knew they were on there because we had seen it. But --

Q. That was not stuff that he gave back to you?

A. No.

Q. Now, did there come a time when you and Mr. Marti went to visit the

SEC in L.A.?

A. Yes. Me, Mr. Marti and Paxton.

Q. And did you do that at Mr. Odell's instructions?

A. At Mr. Odell's instructions. With Mr. Odell's information packet.

Q. Tell me about how you came into possession of that information

packet.

A. Okay. Well, geez, I don't remember this. I'm getting really worn out,

by the way.

Q. I'm going to stop after I do this.

A. I kind of get lost and have a real hard time. It was probably just

Fed Ex'd to us. I'm pretty sure it was Fed Ex'd to us.

Ms. Klar: Let's go off the record if you're tired.

(This session of the sworn statement was adjourned at 3:05 p.m.)

STATE OF CALIFORNIA) ) ss.COUNTY OF SANTA CLARA )

I, the undersigned, declare under penalty of perjury that I have read

the foregoing transcript of volume one and I have made any corrections,

additions, or deletions that I was desirous of making; that the

foregoing is a true and correct transcript of my testimony contained

therein.

Executed this 28th day of August, 1997, at San Jose , California.

/Signed/ JOSEPH ERNEST LAURICELLA

REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE

I, JANET T. OREB, CSR No. 5198, Certified Shorthand Reporter, certify:

That the foregoing proceedings were taken before me at the time and

place therein set forth, at which time the witness was put under oath by

me;

That the testimony of the witness and all objections made at the time of

the examination were recorded stenographically by me and were thereafter

transcribed;

That the foregoing is a true and correct transcript of my shorthand

notes so taken.

I further certify that I am not a relative or employee of any attorney

or of any of the parties, nor financially interested in the action.

I declare under the penalty of perjury under the laws of the State of

California that the foregoing is true and correct.

Dated this 5th day of August, 1997.

/Signed/ JANET T. OREB, CSR No. 5198

REPORTER'S CERTIFICATION OF CERTIFIED COPY

I, JANET T. OREB, CSR No. 5198, a Certified Shorthand Reporter in the

State of California, certify that the foregoing pages 1 through 74

constitute a true and correct copy of the original sworn statement of

JOSEPH ERNEST LAURICELLA, taken on August 1, 1997.

I declare under penalty of perjury under the laws of the State of

California that the foregoing is true and correct.

Dated this 5th day of August, 1997.

/Signed/ JANET T. OREB, CSR No. 5198

Continue to Part 4