Q. Who got paid?

A. Who really got paid. We all got a little bit here and there, but he

actually got money. Cold, hard green.

Q. And he got paid in cash?

A. Well, the checks that I received went through his account, and I

would just cash out less what he was getting.

Q. So is it fair to say you would receive checks that would supposedly

be expense reimbursements for mileage and other things?

A. Right.

Q. And then you would use that money to pay yourself and Mr. Marti?

A. Yes.

Q. And what --

A. And my salary, right.

Q. And what was your salary?

A. I think it was 2,000 or something like that on the books. I don't

remember.

Q. So you would get the 2,000 as salary and then whatever you got in

addition for expenses?

A. Anywhere from about $3- to $5,000 monthly expenses plus the 2,000.

Q. That's exactly what Mr. Marti testified to. He said typically you

would get a check between 3- and 5,000 for expenses.

A. Except during the election.

Q. Okay. What happened during the election?

A. During the election that's when I was getting $15- to $20,000,

$25,000. That's when I got the big bucks, but that was run through the

election committee, the election campaign fund and not through Waste

Management's funds. And that's the other thing, some of the checks would

come out of Rail-Cycle LP and some of them would come out of Waste

Management. We had three different -- I had three different pay sources.

I was paid through the election campaign committee, which I think was

called -- Desert Water Coalition, I got paid from them, or I got paid

from Waste Management, or I'd get paid from the Rail-Cycle account. I

would get paid out of those three accounts, and I was just remembering

that the other day there were three different accounts I got pay out of

instead of getting one from Waste Management or there was either Waste

Management or Rail-Cycle.

Q. And when you were getting the $15- to $25,000 that was from the

election campaign?

A. The election campaign.

Q. And why were you getting paid so much during that period of time?

A. Because we were paying all the people. I was paying all the

volunteer, quote, unquote, volunteers, they were getting paid hundreds

of dollars a day. We had people handing out literature and to stand out

in front of, you know -- well, actually, the board of supervisors'

meetings they went to during that period of time and Mojave Water Agency

we went to at that time, to the -- to the, God, what was the other one,

to the Planning Commission meetings. We had all of these people, those

were all paid people that would run out there and say, yay, Rail-Cycle,

we want this project, it's a good thing, and in actuality they were all

being paid.

Q. How many people would typically attend those meetings, what was the

range?

A. I'll tell you what, we had on -- we had a dinner in -- I guess a

typical dinner would be the one we had in my place that was catered in.

The catering bill for that one, I think it was -- I think it was almost

$3,000, and if you're familiar with Cadiz -- I mean, with 29 Palms,

$3,000 would be the same here in the Bay Area of doing like $50,000. I

mean it's probably had maybe 50, 75 people there. The smaller the meet

-- the smallest meeting we would always like to get at least the way

Glen and I worked it out with -- we would like to have at least four

focal people and color the background. Three or four focal people, and

then the background people in the back just kind of filler.

And what I would do -- in fact, if you look at some of the tapes, it's

kind of interesting, if you look at some of the tapes of the newscast

when we're in front of the board of supervisors, I'm moving these three

people around because they all have specific things they had to say, to

different reporters. I move one to one and one to another. It's like a

filling game, moving people around. And I was trained by that from the

people out of Washington, the people out of Washington trained me to do

-- how to do that and maybe five of us or maybe more than that. About

ten of us. They brought people out and showed us how to do that. How to

use the resources. And my job during the election campaign was to get

the focal people to -- even though we knew we weren't going to win

enough voted in Cadiz or in 29, we knew we weren't going to win that

much of the election. We knew it was going to be a landslide there. At

least when we moved that same focal amount of people that was paid from

there to San Bernardino that the people in San Bernardino would think

that was all the people in Needles or Cadiz saying, yeah, we liked the

project and that would make them feel comfortable to support the

project.

Q. When you say they brought in people to train you, is that Rail-Cycle

or Waste Management?

A. Waste Management brought. They brought in from Washington. And one of

them was the president's speech writer. That's what they said.

Q. You mean Clinton's speech writer?

A. Yes. Clinton's speech writer. I mean Waste Management they spent a

lot of money. They spent millions and millions of dollars on that

campaign.And everybody's ass was in the ringer if they hadn't passed it,

so they pulled all the stops out.

Q. And when was the election, what year, do you remember?

A. '95, I think. '95? Yeah, '95. Or '96? '95. Yeah.

Q. Now, at some time in '95 was there a government raid on the Cadiz

Ranch by the Department of California, California Department of Labor?

A. Uh-huh.

Q. And did Odell or anybody else from Waste Management --

A. Set it up?

Q. Provide you with funds to pay off Cadiz employees to file false

claims with the California Department of Labor?

A. You know, let me tell you how it's done. From what it sounds like

that isn't how it actually happened, and it remains the same thing, but

I don't want this to sound like it was a covert thing, that we were CIA

paying under the table. It was like we got a whole lot of illegal aliens

who were pissed off and we gave them $10, $30 or $100, and they went and

filed claims and disappeared after the claims were filed, but it was

enough to get the officials down there to give you guys a bad time. That

was Glen Odell's idea. Glen Odell is the one who came up with the idea

of the phone numbers, and in fact in all of my paperwork is some fax

with Glen having the phone numbers in his handwriting of the different

people we were supposed to contact, and he also had a friend of his who

was in, what is the -- the United Farm Workers. And in fact, they may

have done so, I don't know, they were going to plant a UFW insider.

Q. Planted somebody from the UFW at Cadiz?

A. Glen has a background of a lot of -- from up north there is a lot of

that kind of uppie protest kind of thing.

Q. How old is Glen Odell?

A. 55. In much better health than I am and not locked up.

Ms. Klar: Off the record.

(off the record.)

Q. By Ms. Klar: Can you tell me how you first met Glen Odell?

A. It's probably the one thing I'd rather wait.

Q. That's fine.

Okay. That's the next thing I was going to ask you about. Okay. Did you

on behalf of Waste Management provide information to Federal Drug

Enforcement Agency?

A. Yes, I did. That's another one, we did it, but Glen did it

collectively because through Muehl, they contacted the FBI and the DEA

and started kicking up all kinds of dust about how they we4re flying

drugs in and out of the farm. Which is one of the things that I started

using from Glen, Glen started letting it slip seductively when we were

doing enterprises with the newspaper because it was like a hot little

ticket item and he let it slip out, there may be -- maybe, I don't want

to say, there may be some drug thing going on out at the farm out there.

And we made sure that, we made sure that everybody from Cadiz, all the

people believed it because they, of course, told him who, of course,

told somebody else and he got the feeling that drug dealing was going on

and that's how we figured out that's how you got donated the money to

buy -- to put the deposit down for the --

Q. Sun World.

A. For Sun World.

Q. So that was a story that you spread.

A. That's a story that we spread, and it flew real well because there

had been some problems, after we said that, with the DEA out there, or

supposedly somebody said it. Then we started the rumor that you took and

killed one of your employees out there. That was about the same time

that you threw him in front of a train. You know that one.

Q. I'm not familiar with that rumor.

A. There was somebody who was actually hit by a train at the crosswalk,

but we started that, that you had thrown him out in front of the train,

your company.

Q. Cadiz?

A. Cadiz.

And then we also started the rumor that -- what was the other one, a

good one. There was one that I really liked, it was one of the better

ones, and we worked really hard on those things. Glen and I would sit

down and work this stuff all out, and then I would actually work on

planting it in these people's minds, and then we'd kind of like -- the

paperwork would go out to -- we would have like little hints in it or

we'd mention it to members of the board in passing or Mojave Water

Agency. We made sure that people from Mojave Water Company came down

like for a luncheon with the people of Cadiz and stuff was mentioned,

and we just happened at that point to do the tape on Hyder, showed them

the taped on Hyder so. It was the drug thing we did.

Oh, there was a thing where we accused one of you workers of shooting a

dog in the back of a car and threatening to do the same thing -- we told

them that he was going around threatening the farm workers if they

didn't work fast enough they were going to shoot them like the dog. But

this is stuff that went on constantly. Daily. It's not like it just

happened once in a while. It went on day in, day out.

Q. Did anyone ever instruct you to plant drugs out at the farm?

A. I'm not comfortable answering that.

Q. But certainly --

A. Thing were planted -- things were planted out at the farm. I visited

that farm many times, Glen Odell visited that farm many times. I have

pictures of Glen and I out at the farm, many times. I -- you know, I've

flown -- there have been fly-bys over that farm many times. Like I say,

the reason we know that the oil pipeline was on a planted area is

because I was out there and I actually walked it. There are things that

people planted out there unbeknownst to your company or unbeknownst to

Cadiz Land Company or that Cadiz, that Cadiz management didn't know

about, but some of the Cadiz employees did, which would be considered an

environmental hazard an they were hidden. Then we went back and dug that

information up and fed that information to the different environmental

agencies, but it was done by employees or former employees and

unbeknownst to the management of Cadiz during the time of their

employment at Cadiz, and we pumped them -- or I pumped them for that

information. Glen told me what to do with it, where to get that

information out to, and it went to the different agencies.

Q. Were employees paid, were Cadiz employees paid to do that or --

A. Yes and no. They weren't paid -- it's hard just sitting here right

now to think about how poor it is out there and for us to say pay

somebody, it may be $20 or it may be a meal, that may be paying them

enough to here sitting in San Jose with a median income of 75,000 a

year, paying somebody is going to be 2- or $3,000 to do the same thing,

but there it may have been $20 or $25, and that went on a lot,

especially with the migrant field workers. And Cadiz employees. It's not

a high-paying job for them. So, yeah, we paid them, but on a small

scale. I guess it's all the same thing.

Q. It's relative is what you're saying?

A. It's relative, there we go. I can tell you're a lawyer.

Q. Okay. You mentioned Hyder, Arizona. Now, it's my understanding that

you took a trip, at least one trip to Hyder, Arizona, with Mr. Marti and

Mr. Limon and yourself?

A. Yeah. Yes.

Q. And you can't recall exactly when that occurred?

A. I can't recall exactly.

Q. Okay. Do you know if that was the first time you had been to Hyder?

A. That was actually the last time I went to Hyder.

Q. On other trips to Hyder had you been accompanied by Mr. Marti or had

you gone with other people?

A. No, I had gone with other people. The funny part about it I'm

remembering back -- I thought we did three trips to Hyder, okay. But

everybody considers it's two trips to Hyder, but I think there was

three. The second was to bring down and bring back. I -- I think that's

the time we were trying to find Cindy the second time down there and

didn't find her. We looked for her the first time I went down there. The

second time we looked for her, I believe. I'm having a hard time -- and

the third time is when we actually did find her. The third time could

have actually been the second time and I could have been in Arizona for

something else. Because there were some things we did at the -- that the

company did at the State Attorney General's Office.

(Off the record.)

Q. By Ms. Klar: Okay. Who told you about Cindy Eisenberger; do you

recall?

A. I think we have to go back to the beginning how we got this whole

Hyder thing going. I knew nothing about Hyder whatsoever and Glen

mentioned it like a couple of times in passing about -- only because we

were using it to deal with how Pacific Ag became -- that kind of thing,

a rundown of one company to the next company, the next company, and it

started in Hyder in the jojoba bean, but I never -- and Glen didn't

decide there was anything in Hyder to worry about except that we found

out from the Riddles in one of their -- we found out from the Riddles

one night that a girl named Cindy Eisenberger had been a secretary at

Hyder and had made the transition to Cadiz, in other words, she had been

a secretary in both places. And now at that point in time we were still

tracking down, or I was going after -- what Glen wanted me to dig up was

any kind of environmental thing I could dig up and we thought she might

know something about it. And so Glen got the company to okay, fund a

trip down to Hyder, Arizona. Have a look around to see what was there.

We went down to Hyder, Arizona, and I went down the first time with the

Riddles and Jesse and myself and the Riddles went down. The Riddles --

Jesse and I went down with the Riddles. They drove their car down and we

drove around the farm area, we found it, drove around the farm area,

went to -- tried to find Cindy. We went and stopped -- it's real small.

It's smaller -- almost as small as Cadiz is, Hyder is, and we stopped at

a bar over there and asked different people and started hearing

different stories, people disgruntled, former employees of the jojoba

bean farm, so I went out and shot some video with the people there. It

was really kind of funny because there were like some dead orange trees.

Maybe three acres of dead orange trees, but I shot it to make it look

like there were like hundreds of acres of dead orange trees, and there

were some jojoba beans and they look dead anyway when they're thriving,

we who those, and made them look like they were dead. Some grapes, and

we shot that, and the whole story was that Cadiz up andl eft everybody

high and dry in Hyder. And there were -- I mean it was -- without

exaggerating there was probably four or five people of all the people we

found out there that really weren't too happy with, I guess, with

Pacific Ag, so -- and they kept and everybody kept mentioning this

Cindy, that she worked for the company. So we went over to a cotton gin,

a cotton gin that said that she worked there, and we went over there and

we got there either late on Friday afternoon and we couldn't find -- or

she wasn't there or it was a weekend, but she wasn't there, and the lady

that was there couldn't speak English very well and we kind of blew it

off and didn't think anything of that. We headed back the same day. I s

howed Glen the tape. He thought it was great propaganda because here's

this great farm that Cadiz had or Pacific Ag had which -- which would

become Cadiz in the future, and it was destroyed, and we have these

people saying all of these mean, awful things, these five people, and we

did up a tape and gave it to the board of supervisors members, to the

Planning Commission, to Mojave Water Agency, to the newspapers, we sent

copies of it to everybody. And then -- and we started going a little bit

deeper into it, and I think we went back a third time -- a second time,

I'm not sure, but a third time Glen said we need to get some more

information, some cold, hard facts, because the Mojave Water Agency is

really big time into this because they're farmers and it looked like --

the videotape looked like you guys had destroyed the whole place out

there and turned it into a natural disaster or something. So Glen said

it played real well and it played real well to the Mojave Water Agency,

so we needed to get more information.And in the meantime we got ahold of

somebody who used to be your pilot, Ken --

Q. Ludeke?

A. -- Ludeke, and I talked to him on the phone and I told him -- I told

him I was Jake Marti. I told a lot of people I was Jake Marti and that,

you know, I wanted to talk to -- he suggested again getting ahold of

Cindy, and so we went back, looked around, and still couldn't find her,

but we talked to some other people there, and then lo and behold we

ground out she was working as a hostess or host or something. I'm not

really quite sure, but I phoned the bar, and lo and behold she was

there, and that's how we finally found her. And at that point in time I

was phoning from the Dateland restaurant. There is only on little

restaurant in Dateland, and I invited her out to have dinner with us,

and I was with Jake Marti, I was with Paul Limon, and I was with my son

Jesse, and, of course, myself. The four of us were there so.

Q. Where did you have dinner, at the Dateland restaurant?

A. Yeah. I think it was called --

Q. But the place that you called her from, she came over and met you?

A. She drove over, yes. So we conversationalized, sat and talked for a

while. She told me how terrible Cadiz was and how they had ripped her

off. How she had stolen some stuff from them. She talked about a

trailer, a computer. She ripped off a computer from them. They owed her

the money, it was hers, that kind of thing. It was very obvious that she

took it because she figured the money was owed to her and she wasn't

going to get her check. And then she also said that she had been

arrested by Cadiz or Pacific Ag, which she was at that point in time

going to do time -- I really didn't know what her status was, legally,

you know, but there was something in there that she had a problem with.

And so we talked some more, and she said she had the computer with the

disks or the computer in the back of her car and if I wanted it. So I

get on the phone, I phone Glen up from there, and I ask Glen very

specifically, "Glen, I got a really good deal here,' and, "Look, we got

this computer. It's supposed to have some stuff on it." I didn't know

what it had on it. She said it had the books on it or -- she was kind of

like -- she knew what was on it, but it had been a while since she'd

been into it for a while. And if you looked at the disk it was really

old. It look like it came off of a 288 of a 286 of something like that.

So Glen said to get the stuff. He was all happy about it. So she went

over and cracked the trunk of the car open, Jesse is standing there,

Jake is standing there because she was a girl and Jake would watch any

girl, standing over her like a dog in heat, anyway, and he -- so he was

standing there and I -- and as I remember back when I looked in there I

don't think the whole computer was there. But there were pieces of the

computer and there were the diskettes, and she gave me the diskettes and

I told her that -- after reviewing the diskettes, because she did have a

lot of information, she said she could give us a lot of information that

was done in the company and whatnot. I then again phoned Glen back up

because I thought it would be a good idea to either fly her back or

something, take her back because I think she would have been a good

person for the company to talk to, in Irvine considering that she

probably had a lot of smut she could give get out. Glen said, "No. We

have the disks. Get her name and all the numbers that we need to get

ahold of her at, but basically just bring the disks back." So I made

arrangements to give her a call the next day. She gave me some numbers

to get her at. One was to call at a phone and leave a message and she'd

get back and that kind of thing. And we took off with the disks, none of

the computer parts, just the disks, and we drove into -- in fact, on the

way back home I called Glen again on the way back home because I was all

excited about the disks. He was all jazzed about the disks. He told me

to drive in the next day, directly in as soon as I could with the disks.

So we drive home that night. I dropped -- I dropped Paul off in Needles,

I dropped Jake off in Cadiz, and I think at that time I was -- I might

have been living at Cadiz at that time. But the next morning Jake and I

loaded back up again and headed back off to Irvine and dropped the disks

off at Irvine.

Q. When you made these different calls to Mr. Odell did you call him at

home?

A. I phoned him at home. I think at least two of them were at home, but

it had to be because it was at night and one of them may have been at

the office. But I believe -- for some reason I keep thinking it was like

at home I called him.

Q. And do you know, did you ever a credit card that you used to make the

calls?

A. Yeah. Sometimes I used a credit card, sometimes I would use a

cellular phone and sometimes I would just reverse the charges.

Q. You had a cellular phone?

A. Yeah.

Q. At the time you took the books -- strike that.

At the time you took the disks from Ms. Eisenberger you knew that there

was company information on the disks that she had taken from the

company?

A. Yeah. Because the disks it appeared to me when she showed me -- but

she said too that the disks, they were backup copies from the actual

company computer. If you look at the disks it obviously looks that way.

They're not, you know --

Q. And did she admit to you that she had stolen it from the company?

A. yeah. She said "The asses owed me the money, I took the computer, I

took this stuff," and something about a trailer. Something about a

trailer, I don't know what that was all about. Something about a trailer

and that -- oh, they had given her a trailer. It didn't make sense, and

I vaguely remember it that they had given her a trailer in lieu if her

pay or something, and the trailer wasn't all the way paid for and she

got in trouble for it, so she grabbed the computer to make up for it or

something.

Q. Now, at the time that you met Ms. Eisenberger, how old was she.

A. I mean, 35.

Q. Approximately 35?

A. Yeah. 35, 38. I'm real bad with ages.

Q. Was she married?

A. No, I don't think at the time.

Q. Can you give me a description, what did she look like?

A. This ought to be real good. Medium height, medium weight. Normal

girl.

Q. Five-four?

A. Five-four. Five foot five. A little shorter than I am. I don't know

what kind of hair she had.

Q. Do you remember what color hair?

A. No. A girl. She's a woman, I don't know. But she reminded me of --

she reminds me like of like a local yokel. How would I put it, kind of a

cowgirl kind -- a cowgirl kind of gone to drugs or something. I don't

know. Jesse could recognize her better than I would.

Q. About how much time did you spend having dinner with her; do you

remember?

A. Maybe about an hour, hour and a half maybe.

Q. And did you all have dinner together?

A. Yeah, together, in the same area but I don't think we were in the

same booth. We kind of moved around because the booths -- you would have

been really uncomfortable with four or five people in one booth.

Q. Now, why was Paul Limon with you?

A. Why was Paul -- he wanted to go down and see what it was like, and we

needed some people from FACE to go down there because we needed some

people to stand up other than me, because at that point everybody knew

that I worked for Waste Management of for Rail-Cycle and I couldn't get

up in the meetings and say , hey, as FACE Environmental. We wanted Paul

to be able to say, hey, I was there, I know how bad it was. I know what

it was like, and we wanted him as part of the videotape.

Q. Okay. You came back to Cadiz and then the next morning you left just

with Jake Marti and went to Irvine?

A. It was Jake and I. I usually didn't never drive into Irvine without

Jake.

Q. Jake has testified that he went with you to Irvine.

A. I'm trying to make sure that it was the next day.

Q. That's his recollections.

A. Because he really wanted it really badly. Glen wanted that thing bad.

That was like a hot number to get over there so, yeah, we had to --

Q. Now, what happened when you arrived, did you see Mr. Odell?

A. I saw Mr. Odell. Odell put -- well, we went into the big office.

There's lots of offices up there. We ran the raw tape, the videotape, we

also -- there was a reason we needed to get that stuff down -- there was

something going on in the next couple of days, either some people were

coming out from the head office or there was something that we needed to

have done to make it look like we had been doing something, so I took

the raw tape with the company credit card and went down to an editing

studio in Irvine while they were going through the disks, diskettes, and

edited sown the tape from -- actually, made two versions, two or three

cut versions. I had it done with voice-over and title and that sort of

thing and edited them down to a three-minute version, and then a minute

and a half version.

Q. And that was pursuant to Mr. Odell's instructions?

A. Right. Yeah.

Q. And you left the disks with him for Mr. Odell to go through?

A. Right.

Q. After you edited the tapes down you came back to Mr. Odell's office

and handed him the tapes?